Phil Collins interview: 'Robert Plant mixed with Led Zeppelin makes for a nasty alchemy'

At Live Aid in 1985, Collins appeared on stage both at Wembley and Philadelphia, jetting between the two on Concorde to perform with Sting, Clapton and a reunited Led Zeppelin. “It looks like I’m showing off: he does Live Aid not once but twice, just to make sure! I do come across a bit smug sometimes. I didn’t mean to be. Watching some of that stuff back, even I started to think, ‘he’s a bit of an unlikable git, isn’t he?’”

Collins book is candid, amusing and revealing but, for a rock superstar, there does seem to be an absence of hedonistic excess. Finding himself in bed with two women in LA, he claims there was ‘no hanky panky. My abiding feeling is ‘What am I supposed to do with two?’ It’s stage-fright time.’ (Indeed, one of the women went on to become the second Mrs Collins).

“I couldn’t look you in the eye and say there was nothing in terms of sex, drugs and rock’n’roll but it wasn’t part of life in Genesis, really,” he says. “We were too conscientious, too safe. We wanted to play and then we maybe had a couple of drinks and went to bed.” Although Collins has lower middle class London roots, Genesis originally formed without him at Charterhouse public school.

“One might expect a little bit of ‘take off your clothes and live!’ if you come from a restrained environment like that. But Tony Banks only had to sniff a glass of wine and he’d be on the floor. Same with Peter Gabriel. I didn’t have to draw a veil over anything, it was kind of non-existent.”

The same cannot be said of that other great Seventies rock band Led Zeppelin, who make a brief appearance in Collins’ book. “I felt I had been made the scapegoat for what happened at Live Aid and so it was a chance to set the record straight.” It was Zeppelin’s first appearance since drummer John Bonham died five years before and has gone down in history as a mess so shambolic that the band tried to bury the footage (of course, this was before YouTube). The way Collins recounts it the atmosphere was toxically poisonous, the band cocky and under-rehearsed.  

"Here’s how it is. Robert on his own: a lovely bloke. Robert and anything to do with Zeppelin: a strange chemistry happens. It’s like a nasty strain of alchemy. Everything becomes very dark – sulphurous even." He describes Jimmy Page as "jumpy", staggering around "like a baby giraffe". 

Although Collins only agreed to play as a favour to Plant, Zeppelin in the meantime recruited American drummer Tony Thompson, who was unhappy about sharing the spot and simply ignored Collins.  “It wasn’t pleasant. If you watch the video, you can see Jimmy dribbling onstage, Robert not hitting the notes, and you can see me miming, playing the air, just to get out of the way.” Collins seems unconcerned about what might come of his comments. “Robert is still my friend. And being the kind of person he is, I think he’ll say I’m right. When Zeppelin get together, something happens. Bad karma.”

One of the pleasures of Collins book are small observations pricking the pomposity of figures who have crossed his path. He is a huge fan of The Beatles but never warmed to Paul McCartney. “I’ve played with him. He’s obviously got the upper hand, because he’s a Beatle, and he would always condescend. ‘Little Phil’s a Beatles fan!’ I find it aggravating.” He is gently scathing about Dustin Hoffman, with whom he appeared in Steven Spielberg’s Hook. He describes the Hollywood star watching Collins’ performance and constantly suggesting cuts to his lines. “He’s sitting there, with his legs up, I’m having to walk around his feet. He has his own scriptwriter to make it more Dustin. He’s not even in the scene. He’s not even due on set for two months. He was letting it be known that it was his movie.”

Collins insists it was not his intention to offend. “I’m not worried, because I know it’s true. But I don’t want to upset anybody, I just find these observations interesting.” He did not show the manuscript to anyone mentioned in it. "My ex-wives have yet to read it. So I'm standing by for the flak," he jokes, lifting his arms in a boxer’s defensive pose. “I think I’ve treated my ex-partners graciously. I have admitted my indiscretions, where they were. And looking back, I think I understand what went wrong a lot better now.”

Collins has been through three marriages, although he points out “I’m back with my third wife, so you could say I have been divorced twice, if you were generous.” Orianne Cevey won a £25 million divorce settlement in 2007 but the couple reunited in 2015. “But she didn’t give me the money back,” Collins adds, smiling.

Collins has five children from three marriages and clearly takes huge pleasure and pride in fatherhood, although guilt over his workaholic absences from family life is an undercurrent of his book. He sank into alcoholism after officially retiring at 55 and deals with that with candour and not a little shame. His health has suffered to the point that he now walks with a stick and can no longer drum anymore but it genuinely doesn’t seem to bother him (“I started when I was five and played for 50 years, so I’m not going to lose any sleep”).

He is excited about the prospect of performing with his 15-year-old son Nicholas on drums. “I bought him a kit when he was a couple of years old, and he really is an accomplished musician. His idols are Chad Smith (Red Hot Chilli Peppers) and John Bonham. But he has listened to a lot of me over the years, things I am kind of tired of to be honest. He plays (1983 Genesis track) Home By The Sea. He’ll say, ‘man, how did you do that?’ So I’ll show him. But I didn’t teach him. He taught himself.”

Officially ending his retirement, Collins (and son) will play five dates at the Royal Albert Hall in June 2017. The re-release of his solo back catalogue over the past 12 months has been enough to convince Collins he is no longer a pariah. Indeed, much of his music is so fantastic - glorious, emotional pop rock with killer production - it seems shameful that he ever attracted the kind of snide criticism he did. “I was a bit thin-skinned,” Collins admits. “If I was performing, looking out at an audience, I might focus on one person who is not enjoying it, as opposed to the other 50,000 people who are. That’s just the way I react. But I’m better now, I must say. Much better than I was.”

He has played three small charity shows over the past year, doing short sets to tiny audiences. “I’m having fun again. Really. The audience loved it, and I came off thinking, ‘that was nice.’ Applause. I’ve missed that. Let’s see how long it lasts!”

Phil Collins, Not Dead Yet is published by Century this week (Thursday 20^th). Tickets for Not Dead Yet:  Live go on sale on Friday October 21 via www.philcollins.com. The Singles (3 disc CD) is out now on Warners