Lesley Stahl’s 60 Minutes interview of Donald Trump was a masterclass in how to handle someone who is gaslighting you. Trump has lied continuously throughout his presidency — so much so that The New York Times has a page devoted to how often he lied in one year. They also have highlighted his lies during a rally speech on October 26th, with his first lie occurring only two minutes into his speech. Lesley Stahl knew that going into the interview, and she was prepared for his lies. Read on to learn how to deal with the gaslighters in your life.
Melania Trump greets children at the White House for a Halloween event, while Donald Trump stands ... [+]
Set the Tone At the Beginning
Similar to Kristen Welker at the second presidential debates, Stahl set limits at the beginning. She says to Trump, “Are you ready for some tough questions?” She repeated the question when she did not get a firm answer. At the beginning of the interview, you see Trump appears somewhat friendly. Note how quickly his mask comes off, and he becomes belligerent towards Stahl. It common for gaslighters to change abruptly when they are not getting what they want, they are caught in a lie, or they feel they are being treated unfairly. Note that for gaslighters, anything you do that they don’t like is seen as unfair.
Use the “Broken Record” Technique
When Trump falsely stated that Biden had acted illegally, Stahl repeated “That’s not true,” and “he’s not” repeatedly. She also added, “There’s no evidence of that.” She repeated it often. She also stated that “this is 60 Minutes, and we can’t put on things on that we can’t verify.” And then she repeated that statement.
Remind Gaslighters of the Question You Asked
When a gaslighter dances around a question, bring up that question again, making it clear that it wasn’t answered the first time. Gaslighters expect to get away with obfuscating, so to remind them they haven’t answered the question lets them know you aren’t letting them get away with it. When Trump didn’t answer Stahl’s question about his biggest domestic priority, she interrupted and said, “I asked you, what is the priority?” Restate the question they didn’t answer, and even state that they didn’t answer it.
Call Them Out
Stahl said regarding Trump using the term “fake news,” “You said to me, ‘I say that because I need to discredit you so that when you say negative things about me, no one will believe you.’” Trump denied this, but it was important for Stahl to mention this interaction she had with Trump. It exposes the “fake news” term as a form of gaslighting.
Don’t Get Distracted by Personal Attacks
Trump tries to turn the focus on to Stahl, by questioning her integrity. He criticizes her and calls her and other reporters and journalists “fake news” consistently during the interview. He says that she’s “quite impossible to convince.” What this means is that Trump was most likely getting frustrated that Stahl wasn’t easy to manipulate. He also said to Stahl, “You’re so negative,” and “you just come in here with that negative attitude,” because she was bringing up facts. By making personal attacks, Trump was trying to distract from his lies and cause confusion and was most likely hoping that Stahl took the bait. She did not.
Know The Facts Thoroughly
When talking with a gaslighter, make sure you are armed with facts. Expect the gaslighter to attack your sources. Then expect the gaslighter to attack your credibility. If you are armed with facts and sources, the gaslighter will grow tired of being held responsible for his statements, and will usually either dig a bigger hole for themselves or walk out (as you saw with Trump).
Call Out Lies
When Trump said, “We created the greatest economy in the history of our country,” Stahl quickly stated, “You know that’s not true.” When Trump stated he had done a “good job” with Covid, Stahl interrupted and said, “Sir, excuse me, Covid cases are up in about 40 states.” When he continued along the same route, Stahl again stated, “Cases are up.” You need to interrupt a gaslighter as he is making his false statement. To allow a gaslighter to continue a false statement, particularly in a media interview, is to allow propaganda.
Keep Your Body Language Neutral
While Trump was making statements that were not true, Stahl kept her composure. When Trump repeatedly called her Lesley (a technique gaslighters use to “put you in your place,”) she stayed firm in her posture. Gaslighters thrive off of making people uncomfortable, so do not give them a payoff. Stay as neutral as possible with your nonverbal communication. If you give any indication that the gaslighter has upset you, he or she will go in for the kill.
Lesley Stahl handled a gaslighter masterfully. When you are living with or working with a gaslighter, they will try every trick to make you feel “less than” and confused. Hold them accountable.
